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	<title>Comments on: The Septuagint and Textual Criticism: Retroverting the Text</title>
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	<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/23/retroverting-the-lx/</link>
	<description>My musings on Biblical Studies, Biblical Hebrew, Dead Sea Scrolls, Septuagint, Popular Culture, Religion, Software, and pretty much anything else that interests me!</description>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/23/retroverting-the-lx/comment-page-1/#comment-291280</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 02:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Boy, am I glad I found this post (and your website). I have a question that may well serve as another example of the usefulness of using the LXX to reverse translate back to the underlying Hebrew.

My question concerns the translation of Gen 3:16. In this verse, all English Bibles to which I&#039;ve access renders the underlying Hebrew with words synonymous with &#039;longing&#039; or &#039;desire&#039; to describe the wife&#039;s feeling for her husband. However, the LXX translates the underlying Hebrew to APOSTROFH -- turning back, returning -- a completely different understanding.

LXX:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;...in pain &lt;strong&gt;your turning&lt;/strong&gt; will be to your husband...&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

not (as most English Bibles do)

NAS
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;...in pain &lt;strong&gt;your desire&lt;/strong&gt; will be to your husband...&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that the creators of the LXX, having had access to a more ancient Hebrew source, translated APOSTROFH from T&#039;ShuVaThaKh(returning, turning back).

ASIDE: I ought also to note that the difference between the Hebrew word for &#039;longing&#039; (T&#039;ShuQaTheKh) and &#039;returning&#039; (T&#039;ShuVaThaKh) is one letter (Qof vs Bet).

Again, thanks for posting on this topic.

Blessings,

Michael]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy, am I glad I found this post (and your website). I have a question that may well serve as another example of the usefulness of using the <acronym title="Septuagint">LXX</acronym> to reverse translate back to the underlying Hebrew.</p>
<p>My question concerns the translation of <acronym title="Genesis">Gen</acronym> 3:16. In this verse, all English Bibles to which I&#8217;ve access renders the underlying Hebrew with words synonymous with &#8216;longing&#8217; or &#8216;desire&#8217; to describe the wife&#8217;s feeling for her husband. However, the <acronym title="Septuagint">LXX</acronym> translates the underlying Hebrew to APOSTROFH &#8212; turning back, returning &#8212; a completely different understanding.</p>
<p>LXX:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>&#8230;in pain <strong>your turning</strong> will be to your husband&#8230;</i></p></blockquote>
<p>not (as most English Bibles do)</p>
<p>NAS</p>
<blockquote><p><i>&#8230;in pain <strong>your desire</strong> will be to your husband&#8230;</i></p></blockquote>
<p>I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that the creators of the <acronym title="Septuagint">LXX</acronym>, having had access to a more ancient Hebrew source, translated APOSTROFH from T&#8217;ShuVaThaKh(returning, turning back).</p>
<p>ASIDE: I ought also to note that the difference between the Hebrew word for &#8216;longing&#8217; (T&#8217;ShuQaTheKh) and &#8216;returning&#8217; (T&#8217;ShuVaThaKh) is one letter (Qof vs Bet).</p>
<p>Again, thanks for posting on this topic.</p>
<p>Blessings,</p>
<p>Michael</p>
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		<title>By: Dispraxis</title>
		<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/23/retroverting-the-lx/comment-page-1/#comment-289838</link>
		<dc:creator>Dispraxis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Excellent post, Tyler.

I&#039;ve been attempting to &lt;a href=&quot;http://diagroup.pbworks.com/f/newLXX_01.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;retrovert&quot; or &quot;reverse engineer&quot;&lt;/a&gt; to Hebrew (Genesis in work) the LXX Greek myself as a huge what-if project, but some caveats might be in order.

1. You should become as familiar as possible with the body of textual criticism that has already been done, so that you are familiar with both the consensus, its dissenters, and most of all the rules of textual criticism. For one should always be a master of the rules if you intend to bend or break them.

2. There are many places, perhaps the majority of places, Tov observes, where it is clear that the Greek translator had the very same MT text before him/her, but made interesting (and some would argue poor) Greek translational choices based on any one of the following possible reasons, such as stylistic taste, misunderstanding of the Hebrew text, less-than-stellar command of the Greek language, etc. If you were to attempt retroversion, even when all your tips are taken into consideration, and if your goal were exegesis, you might become hopeless led astray.

As an example, in Genesis 1:11, when Tov observes that (using secretary of the Continental Congress from 1774 to 1789 Charles Thomson&#039;s English translation) the LXX adds a verbal construction:

&quot;according to kind and according to likeness&quot;

after

&quot;Let the earth produce the grassy plant with sowing seed&quot;


Tov notes this as a purely stylistic flourish, not corresponding to any &quot;lost&quot; Hebrew text. One may disagree, perhaps, but imagine a studious text critical enthusiast not knowing the consensus of scholarly opinion on such issues.

Thanks again,

John F. Felix]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, Tyler.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been attempting to <a href="http://diagroup.pbworks.com/f/newLXX_01.pdf" rel="nofollow">&#8220;retrovert&#8221; or &#8220;reverse engineer&#8221;</a> to Hebrew (Genesis in work) the <acronym title="Septuagint">LXX</acronym> Greek myself as a huge what-if project, but some caveats might be in order.</p>
<p>1. You should become as familiar as possible with the body of textual criticism that has already been done, so that you are familiar with both the consensus, its dissenters, and most of all the rules of textual criticism. For one should always be a master of the rules if you intend to bend or break them.</p>
<p>2. There are many places, perhaps the majority of places, Tov observes, where it is clear that the Greek translator had the very same <acronym title="Masoretic Text">MT</acronym> text before him/her, but made interesting (and some would argue poor) Greek translational choices based on any one of the following possible reasons, such as stylistic taste, misunderstanding of the Hebrew text, less-than-stellar command of the Greek language, etc. If you were to attempt retroversion, even when all your tips are taken into consideration, and if your goal were exegesis, you might become hopeless led astray.</p>
<p>As an example, in Genesis 1:11, when Tov observes that (using secretary of the Continental Congress from 1774 to 1789 Charles Thomson&#8217;s English translation) the <acronym title="Septuagint">LXX</acronym> adds a verbal construction:</p>
<p>&#8220;according to kind and according to likeness&#8221;</p>
<p>after</p>
<p>&#8220;Let the earth produce the grassy plant with sowing seed&#8221;</p>
<p>Tov notes this as a purely stylistic flourish, not corresponding to any &#8220;lost&#8221; Hebrew text. One may disagree, perhaps, but imagine a studious text critical enthusiast not knowing the consensus of scholarly opinion on such issues.</p>
<p>Thanks again,</p>
<p>John F. Felix</p>
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