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	<title>Comments on: Satan in the book of Job? Nope!</title>
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	<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/16/satan-in-the-book-of-job/</link>
	<description>My musings on Biblical Studies, Biblical Hebrew, Dead Sea Scrolls, Septuagint, Popular Culture, Religion, Software, and pretty much anything else that interests me!</description>
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		<title>By: Tyler F. Williams</title>
		<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/16/satan-in-the-book-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-291116</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler F. Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2011 04:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/?p=2039#comment-291116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the info on Potok, Theo. I still like the NJSP and recommend it to my students since most of my students come from Christian backgrounds... and most of the translations they read are part of the Christian English translations from KJV to TNIV. The NJPS gives them a different take on things. That being said I will certainly take a look at Alter&#039;s translation of the wisdom books. I love and have used his translation of Genesis in my courses before.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the info on Potok, Theo. I still like the NJSP and recommend it to my students since most of my students come from Christian backgrounds&#8230; and most of the translations they read are part of the Christian English translations from <acronym title="King James Version">KJV</acronym> to <acronym title="Today?s New International Version">TNIV</acronym>. The <acronym title="Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures: The New JPS Translation according to the Traditional Hebrew Text">NJPS</acronym> gives them a different take on things. That being said I will certainly take a look at Alter&#8217;s translation of the wisdom books. I love and have used his translation of Genesis in my courses before.</p>
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		<title>By: Theophrastus</title>
		<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/16/satan-in-the-book-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-291115</link>
		<dc:creator>Theophrastus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2011 03:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/?p=2039#comment-291115</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chaim Potok was not the literary editor of the NJPS edition.  

Chaim Potok was named the editor-in-chief of the Jewish Publication Society from 1965-1975, but the NJPS translation first started to appear in 1962, and it was not completed until 1982 (and not printed in a single volume until 1985).

Chaim Potok was a later addition to the Kesuvim translation team (which originally consisted of Moshe Greenberg, Jonas Greenfield and Nahum Sarna; later expanded to include Saul Leeman, Chaim Potok, Martin Rozenberg, and David Shapiro.)

Chaim Potok was also the editor of the &quot;peshat&quot; commentary section of the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism&#039;s official Chumash (Pentateuch) &lt;i&gt;Etz Hayim&lt;/i&gt;.

------

I cannot agree with your assessment of the NJPS because it does not follow the Hebrew as closely as other Jewish translations (such as Buber-Rosenzweig&#039;s, Fox&#039;s, or Alter&#039;s translations).  Even more serious, there are serious stylistic differences among the translation philosophies of the Torah (Pentateuch), Neviim (Prophets), and Kesuvim (Writings).

------

However, I do agree with your assessment that the satan in Job (and in Jewish thought generally) is quite different than &quot;Satan&quot; in medieval and contemporary Christian thought.  To distinguish the satan from the Christian/Greek &quot;Satan&quot; I usually take care pronounce then name of the satan with pointed Sephardic accent:  the sa-TAHN.  (Despite my usual practice of sticking to an Ashkenazic accent.)  

Your analogy of the prosecuting attorney is an excellent one -- since the prosecuting attorney still reports to the Judge.

------

Finally, I can commend to you &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Books-Ecclesiastes-Translation-Commentary/dp/0393068129/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Robert Alter&#039;s recent translation of Job&lt;/a&gt;.  I am quite sure that you will prefer it greatly to the NJPS translation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chaim Potok was not the literary editor of the <acronym title="Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures: The New JPS Translation according to the Traditional Hebrew Text">NJPS</acronym> edition.  </p>
<p>Chaim Potok was named the editor-in-chief of the Jewish Publication Society from 1965-1975, but the <acronym title="Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures: The New JPS Translation according to the Traditional Hebrew Text">NJPS</acronym> translation first started to appear in 1962, and it was not completed until 1982 (and not printed in a single volume until 1985).</p>
<p>Chaim Potok was a later addition to the Kesuvim translation team (which originally consisted of Moshe Greenberg, Jonas Greenfield and Nahum Sarna; later expanded to include Saul Leeman, Chaim Potok, Martin Rozenberg, and David Shapiro.)</p>
<p>Chaim Potok was also the editor of the &#8220;peshat&#8221; commentary section of the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism&#8217;s official Chumash (Pentateuch) <i>Etz Hayim</i>.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>I cannot agree with your assessment of the <acronym title="Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures: The New JPS Translation according to the Traditional Hebrew Text">NJPS</acronym> because it does not follow the Hebrew as closely as other Jewish translations (such as Buber-Rosenzweig&#8217;s, Fox&#8217;s, or Alter&#8217;s translations).  Even more serious, there are serious stylistic differences among the translation philosophies of the Torah (Pentateuch), Neviim (Prophets), and Kesuvim (Writings).</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>However, I do agree with your assessment that the satan in Job (and in Jewish thought generally) is quite different than &#8220;Satan&#8221; in medieval and contemporary Christian thought.  To distinguish the satan from the Christian/Greek &#8220;Satan&#8221; I usually take care pronounce then name of the satan with pointed Sephardic accent:  the sa-TAHN.  (Despite my usual practice of sticking to an Ashkenazic accent.)  </p>
<p>Your analogy of the prosecuting attorney is an excellent one &#8212; since the prosecuting attorney still reports to the Judge.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Finally, I can commend to you <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Books-Ecclesiastes-Translation-Commentary/dp/0393068129/" rel="nofollow">Robert Alter&#8217;s recent translation of Job</a>.  I am quite sure that you will prefer it greatly to the <acronym title="Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures: The New JPS Translation according to the Traditional Hebrew Text">NJPS</acronym> translation.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler F. Williams</title>
		<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/16/satan-in-the-book-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-291038</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler F. Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 03:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/?p=2039#comment-291038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Note sure if I got &quot;all exasperated&quot;, but thanks for the link.

I think your suggestion, Tylor, is good. Although I wonder if suggesting that this is Satan suggests something about the realia of the text that may be problematic (if the events of the prologue actually &quot;happened&quot;, then what does it teach about God? That human lives are expendable to prove a point to Satan?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note sure if I got &#8220;all exasperated&#8221;, but thanks for the link.</p>
<p>I think your suggestion, Tylor, is good. Although I wonder if suggesting that this is Satan suggests something about the realia of the text that may be problematic (if the events of the prologue actually &#8220;happened&#8221;, then what does it teach about God? That human lives are expendable to prove a point to Satan?)</p>
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		<title>By: Untitled 9</title>
		<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/16/satan-in-the-book-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-290958</link>
		<dc:creator>Untitled 9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 22:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/?p=2039#comment-290958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Tyler Williams got all exasperated with the way English translations of the BIble – or at least Christian English translations, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tyler Williams got all exasperated with the way English translations of the BIble – or at least Christian English translations, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tylor</title>
		<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/16/satan-in-the-book-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-290947</link>
		<dc:creator>Tylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/?p=2039#comment-290947</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can appreciate that a Hebrew/Jewish reader of this text would be confined to limiting their understanding of this figure as just &quot;the adversary&quot;. But, wouldn&#039;t viewing &quot;the adversary&quot; as Satan or one of his minions be obvious from a Christian perspective? 

One can appreciate understanding how the text would have been understood by its original audience, and that is definitely the first step in understanding any text from the OT. But I don&#039;t think Christians should end their ultimate interpretation of any OT text based on purely Hebrew/Jewish interpretation. 

It would be like interpreting Sam Gamgee&#039;s character after only reading the first few chapters of LOTR. Does not knowing the whole story help shed some light on the ambiguities of his earlier character? 

Maybe the best way to go in a Christian translation would be to say &quot;the adversary&quot; but with a footnote saying this is traditionally believed by Christians to be an early view of Satan?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can appreciate that a Hebrew/Jewish reader of this text would be confined to limiting their understanding of this figure as just &#8220;the adversary&#8221;. But, wouldn&#8217;t viewing &#8220;the adversary&#8221; as Satan or one of his minions be obvious from a Christian perspective? </p>
<p>One can appreciate understanding how the text would have been understood by its original audience, and that is definitely the first step in understanding any text from the <acronym title="Old Testament">OT</acronym>. But I don&#8217;t think Christians should end their ultimate interpretation of any <acronym title="Old Testament">OT</acronym> text based on purely Hebrew/Jewish interpretation. </p>
<p>It would be like interpreting Sam Gamgee&#8217;s character after only reading the first few chapters of LOTR. Does not knowing the whole story help shed some light on the ambiguities of his earlier character? </p>
<p>Maybe the best way to go in a Christian translation would be to say &#8220;the adversary&#8221; but with a footnote saying this is traditionally believed by Christians to be an early view of Satan?</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler F. Williams</title>
		<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/16/satan-in-the-book-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-290945</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler F. Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/?p=2039#comment-290945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Simon, thanks for responding to John regarding the use of the Hebrew article. I didn&#039;t mention 1Chron 21:1 since it is special case as you know. There the definite article is not used and traditionally it has been understood as the first clear reference to capital-s &quot;Satan&quot; in the Hebrew Bible. Interestingly, most recent commentators on 1Chronicles tend to move away from this traditional understanding. I am not so sure a move away is required. Sounds like I need to write a blog post on it! :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Simon, thanks for responding to John regarding the use of the Hebrew article. I didn&#8217;t mention 1Chron 21:1 since it is special case as you know. There the definite article is not used and traditionally it has been understood as the first clear reference to capital-s &#8220;Satan&#8221; in the Hebrew Bible. Interestingly, most recent commentators on 1Chronicles tend to move away from this traditional understanding. I am not so sure a move away is required. Sounds like I need to write a blog post on it! <img src='http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention Yes! Tyler is exactly right! Though, I'm not sure I agree that the legal metaphor holds the book together #fb -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/16/satan-in-the-book-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-290941</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Yes! Tyler is exactly right! Though, I'm not sure I agree that the legal metaphor holds the book together #fb -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/?p=2039#comment-290941</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Brittney Lezon, Calvin Park. Calvin Park said: Yes! Tyler is exactly right! http://bit.ly/gWK08R Though, I&#039;m not sure I agree that the legal metaphor holds the book together #fb [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Brittney Lezon, Calvin Park. Calvin Park said: Yes! Tyler is exactly right! <a href="http://bit.ly/gWK08R" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/gWK08R</a> Though, I&#039;m not sure I agree that the legal metaphor holds the book together #fb [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul D.</title>
		<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/16/satan-in-the-book-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-290937</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 13:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/?p=2039#comment-290937</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps God was acting as David&#039;s adversary in 1 Chronicles 21:1, since the very same story in Samuel portrays God as the one who causes David to take a census.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps God was acting as David&#8217;s adversary in 1 Chronicles 21:1, since the very same story in Samuel portrays God as the one who causes David to take a census.</p>
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		<title>By: Hexaplaric Titles for &#8220;Satan&#8221; in Job &#171; LXX Studies</title>
		<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/16/satan-in-the-book-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-290933</link>
		<dc:creator>Hexaplaric Titles for &#8220;Satan&#8221; in Job &#171; LXX Studies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/?p=2039#comment-290933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Tyler Williams has listed his &#8220;pet peeve&#8221; for today, and it should be a pet peeve for most people. What Tyler doesn&#8217;t like is how Bible translations have simply translated hasatan &#8220;the satan&#8221; as Satan, the leader of the demonic forces, when hasatan only has to mean &#8220;the accuser,&#8221; &#8220;the opponent,&#8221; or &#8220;adversary&#8221; in the context of Job. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tyler Williams has listed his &#8220;pet peeve&#8221; for today, and it should be a pet peeve for most people. What Tyler doesn&#8217;t like is how Bible translations have simply translated hasatan &#8220;the satan&#8221; as Satan, the leader of the demonic forces, when hasatan only has to mean &#8220;the accuser,&#8221; &#8220;the opponent,&#8221; or &#8220;adversary&#8221; in the context of Job. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Holloway</title>
		<link>http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/2011/02/16/satan-in-the-book-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-290929</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Holloway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblical-studies.ca/blog/?p=2039#comment-290929</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In response to John, it is a feature of Greek that proper names take the definite article, but it is not a feature of Hebrew. The only instance that I can think of in which a proper noun (acc. to some major translations) takes the definite article is הקהלת = &quot;the Qohelet&quot;, or &quot;Ecclesiastes&quot;. As for (the) Satan, however, this name turns up without a definite article in Psalm 109:6 and, more significantly, in 1 Chronicles 21:1. Tyler, you mention the first of those two verses, and I would disagree with you as regards how you seem to be reading it (I would take it as a personification of all things adversarial, rather than one accuser out of many), but I am interested in the fact that you didn&#039;t mention the second. If Satan is most definitely not a proper name in the Hebrew Bible, then how are you reading 1 Chronicles 21?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to John, it is a feature of Greek that proper names take the definite article, but it is not a feature of Hebrew. The only instance that I can think of in which a proper noun (acc. to some major translations) takes the definite article is הקהלת = &#8220;the Qohelet&#8221;, or &#8220;Ecclesiastes&#8221;. As for (the) Satan, however, this name turns up without a definite article in Psalm 109:6 and, more significantly, in 1 Chronicles 21:1. Tyler, you mention the first of those two verses, and I would disagree with you as regards how you seem to be reading it (I would take it as a personification of all things adversarial, rather than one accuser out of many), but I am interested in the fact that you didn&#8217;t mention the second. If Satan is most definitely not a proper name in the Hebrew Bible, then how are you reading 1 Chronicles 21?</p>
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